Hi peeps. One question i would like to ask. I have a DFI mobo AGP system. Would it be worth waiting for the funds for a AM2 (or Phenom), or upgrading my 6600GT, to a 1900XT. Reason i ask is, despite my 6600GT not having an overall effect on my overclock, it is holding me back.

In light of the AMD roadmap for the Phenom etc, i am not sure if i should entertain any upgrades to my current system or not. Any opinions would be welcomed.

Welcome to the forums!

Anyway, personally I wouldn't upgrade your graphics for now, it's pretty much a waste of money (though only £100) if you plan to replace your computer soon. The 6600GT is still a great little runner and should see you through on most games with moderate detail settings for the meantime. If you plan to keep that machine as another gaming machine it would be worth it.

I would upgrade to an Intel system right now, they are very solid at the moment and have left AMD in the dust (and I'm not an Intel fanboy, running a AMD X2 here, haven't had an Intel for a long time). If you're an overclocker (and seeing as you mention overclock, I shall assume so) you may want to check out the "bargain bin" Intel chips as they are insane chips. The £50 Pentium E21XXs are dual core chips that are basically Core2Duos with a different name, and can get huge overclocks. For a bit more the £180 QX6600 is an insane quad core overclocker, which Aaron (azcn2503) can attest for. It will be interesting to see how much Phenom pulls AMD back.

So basically, upgrade if you really want to, but be aware you will have to replace it as soon as you want to replace anything else, so it may not all be worth it.

Thanks. I am not sure when i last had an Intel. Must have been a P133, i think.. I am planning on giving my current setup (or atleast part of) to a mate.

The plan is to build a new speced machine at some piont without upgrading my current, but the 6600GT shows some weird stats in Everest. It sometimes drops 200Mhz on the Ramdac, and thus, i think my hand maybe forced before i can upgrade. I have not tested the card with anything. Thought about say running CoD 2 and seeing any drops in frame rates, but decided not to pursue. Not sure if that would be of any tangible use?

Hmm, dropping 200MHz does seem weird, though that could just be something like the underclocking some processors do to save energy. Would be weird in a game and I haven't heard about it on graphics cards.

Any game you run on any card will see a drop in framerate while you're playing, as different areas of the game have different stresses. The only way to test if your card is giving up is to compare it to a known previous benchmark.

Also, if you plan on giving it to a friend, you could say that if you upgrade the graphics would he pay a bit when they gets it off you, but less than the full price of the card. This way you get to have better graphics and they get a cheap upgrade when they gets it.

Yeah, i have not heard of Graphics cards doing this. Did have a couple of blue screens whilst playing Blitzkrieg.
Updated the Forceware Dvrs and the problem was cured in terms software. As BK is a Cpu dependent game, figured that was it until now.

My mate has already offered to pay some money. He is aware of my problem anyway. Good idea though.

Even CPU dependant games will have problems if they don't like the graphics drivers.

Does your friend want the comp for gaming?

Yeah. Mainly for gaming. WoW being one. My mate has a second build i did for him. He bought a new Psu and SATA hardisk (which he could not use, the mobo did not support SATA. Should have double checked i know) and System Ram, which would be migrated. My OCZ will be hopefully used as well. Opticals, sound etc accounted for. That only really leaves the Graphics and the cooling. I've yet to convince him about water.

That's the thing with Forceware Dvrs. Sometimes the later builds appear to have problems with some games. I had a problem with SW Republic Commando. It would not run on a update version of 95.**. They cured it though with the next. Figured they debugged whatever code was wrong. Probably looking to deep into it though

Heh, if he doesn't want water cooling, don't try to persuade him, it's expensive and dangerous for the inexperienced, and you can get some pretty powerful air solutions that suit most fine. I want to try water at some point, but considering decent kits cost so much, it's a long way away.

I had a few issues with ForceWare recently, basically being each one had a different problem with my 8800GTS (which replaced my fried 6800GT, wasn't a planned upgrade). The first set just caused random errors everywhere, like yellow triangles in source. The second set caused some form of memory leak onto the system RAM, eventually bluescreening. Haven't had problems with the most recent ones. Then again, you'll get that with every set of drivers, just graphics drivers are a lot more complex than most.

While we're on to watercooling - my reason for staying away from it is not because of the whole electricity/water thing, but the time and money required to get it right and to maintain it. I enjoy upgrading my computer, and say, if I wanted to add a second 8800 Ultra (make it a Black Pearl edition), think of the hassle of either draining the system and refilling it or clamping the hoses to stop flow, just to fit a second graphics card. Then I'd no doubt change my pre-watercooled motherboard... just not worth thinking about.

Yeah, that's the other big issue, removing flexibility. I guess it would be easier if you have experience, but that requires doing it in the first place.

I think that regardless of experience, it's too much hassle for someone like me.

True, though I would like to set up a water cooled system at some point. Preferably with chiller in loop for extra kickassedness. Would be interesting and make my PC more individual.

The comment about being a long way off, is a comparative situation for me. I've had my kit for six months. Part of a project to mod my case. Big accident has delayed me somewhat. Project 2 due to start next month. I was on a shoe string budget before that. As such i guess i am not qualified to comment further really. I will anyway if no objections.

I chose originally anyway, because it would helped a lot with cooling. Temperatures were ok at stock, but those Freezer 64's move shedloads of heat. Excellent yes, but not with crap airflow. Anyway, even if you don't OC, increased cooling is a major benefit with the emphasis going towards other hot components and the VRM's. All the more, if the GPU's are WC.

But yeah, aesthetics wise, it must be likened to an artists heaven. The UV dyes look so cool, imo.

If you set up a good airflow you can get great results. I like the idea of experimental airflow opposed to convention front-in rear-out airflow. My current build has a front/rear-in top-out flow. Unfortunately the CPU cooler itself isn't that good, but I'm looking to replace that when I get round to it. I'm also looking at new case, especially unconventional ones (non towers).

Personally I don't see the point of WC without OC, I see WC as a performance enhancer that you pay a lot of money for, so you might aswell use. Though, if you have the cash, though, might aswell do it, lol.

Got no front intake on my case. I would like my next case to have this. The Antec 900 seems to be a popular choice.

Wow, haven't seen cases without front intakes for a while.

The big Antec cases, like the 900, are meant to be incredible cases, and they look it too.

They do have some great design aspects. My case has a warped body. I used to have a weight bench. Half a sleep one morning, i knocked it into my base unit. Anyway, cooling has always been a concern with this case. It would have been more so if i had fitted my Rad, it is a Swiftech that has been designed to mount to the back Case Fan Mounts.

That would leave two Fans. I could not drill the bottom front Fascia for a Fan, the Pump would have to sit in front of it. I am going to get an Akasa Mirage 62, ugly as anything, but they still look cool. Going to upgrade to a Radeon, and wait until DDR3 is more prominent. I think by July 08, it will be. Hopefully anyway, because AM2 mobo's will be dirt cheap
because of AM2+ If i wanted to stay DualCore and DDR2, that probably would not be any cheaper.

One thing i am not sure of is if my Psu will be able to handle the workload of WC. It's a Hiper Type-R Series 480Watt. What do you think?

Heh, nice mod

I can recommend the Mirage 62, I have the Ecplise (it's predecessor) and it's a great case. The reason I want a new one is it is far to big and I want to try something different.

As for your PSU, it should be OK aslong as you don't do stuff like SLi and use some of the insane equipment (Ultras, extreme quad processors with huge overclocks etc).

Not on AGP. I need a big case. I might see if i can sourse some PC4000/4200, if it is OC stuff. Have you thought about the SFF cases like one used by Shuttle? Then again that would mean a new mobo unless you have a micro?

Well you should be fine with that PSU with most AGP dated hardware. All PC4000 DDR RAM is overclockers RAM, all it does is insure a higher RAM FSB, which means a high synchronous CPU FSB, which is better.

As for cases, I have a full ATX mobo and intend to keep it. I've seen a nice case, the Mountain Mods Bob Slay, it's pretty damn small and still full ATX. Would need modifications, but they do those. Need to contact them for a quote and hope it's not too much.

I would love to keep the big case, but I just want more desk space and portability.

In theory, my system would be OK with a 480W PSU. My system uses a peak of 500W (100W of that is for the monitor, on a separate circuit), so 400W fo the PC itself. I think you will be fine with that PSU.

Yeah, more desk space is more disirable. I junked mine and got an old office table fom work. I do miss a proper Pc desk though.

I am not going to be changing my OCZ. Can't remember the FSB i worked out (in my bios it si still FSB, esier term anyway) Probably have to loosen timings slightly, but it will still go.


Thanks. A big Enermax is what i would like next.

I have problems with complete lack of space, so I need a small case to recover some of it.

Personally I just read some reliable reviews of PSUs and buy the best I can. Pretty much like every component I buy.

The quality of different makes has seemed to have improved, in the sense that reviews seem to contain more higher quality units these days.

Yeah, I can certainly agree with that, aslong as you don't get a generic or a passively cooled one it's usually alright.