^ .--::*Ine*::--.^ sier:
*so did the ppl i trusted
*ud think id learn but no
- McWill sier:
*if learn = be alone. then its a lesson best missed
--- ^ .--::*Ine*::--.^ sier:
*well maybe
*but is it better to be hurt?
- McWill sier:
*is it not better to have loved and lost?

-------------------------------------------

-- ^ .--::*Ine*::--.^ sier:
*life is unfair. some things dont make any sence. why is some sick and some not. why do some get cancer and some not. why does some ppl have depression but others not. why is someone blind and deaf and some not? why are some handicapped and some not? and not just illnesses. some are so poor they cant afford food and some litteraly swim in money. why cant the rich give to the poor. when for instence u watch programs like would you like to become a milionar on tv, i get frustrated. is this how life should be? Why couldnt we give the money to someone who need em? Would you hear less in order to give someone the ability to hear back?
- McWill sier:
*it isnt how life should be. but Humans on the whole are destructive and greedy. we should throw away the concept of money completly imo. but we are too imature for that right now D:

The MC's are quite philosophical this night xD

Insert communism and preference utilitarianism

:O do i actualy agree with Nannal, or are my defenitions off? D:

The problem is people would abuse that system to the max and thus we would need a two tier system to sort the people who can be responsible from those who cant and therefore we are going against the absolute basics of communism (although not utilitarianism because with that we can commit immoral actions in the interest of saving a larger number to a greater degree) so without hand picking a nation of people who can be smart and damning the rest my ideal utopia will not be brought into the real world.

So you probably agree with me.

Fail.

You astound me sometimes, you would likely not make it into your own utopia.

Surly if it my utopia I am to decide as to whomever would be part of it.

Also if you would like to explain your statement feel free to do so, perhaps then we simple humans could grasp your magnificence.

We'll I don't belive in a world without money, but in a world where people shared a lil bit more. Like myself, I've been pretty poor and faced alot of problems, so I know what that is like. But yet I feel more sorry for those who have some handicaps, or that can't function in some ways. I at least got a 100% working body. But I think the idea of life as unfair will be there, and always have been there. Life was never fair.

" The strong lives, the weak dies " to quote a sentence from Kenshin. Ofc there are a few celebrities who donate like 10% of their income or something, but the world is still cruel to those who needs help I'd say.
There's so many way's we could change the world, but then again I realise thats probably never going to happen. Is this unfairness what keeps the world in balance?

to me, the concept of money is to bribe the uneducated/unfortunate to do remedial tasks that nobody wants to do, and to create and then divide social classes.
society only works if everyone plays there part. some jobs may seem more important than others, but if [Almost any average job you could think of] disappeared overnight we'd soon want them back.

as nannal said, that system would be abused so it wouldn't work in reality.
perhaps sometime in the future...

it would never work. I don't want to be insulting or anything. But it will never ever happen.

Also, I find it a little hipocritical of people to comment on rich should give to the poor, etc. Especially when they do <LOOK MA, I AM SWEARING> all themselves to help the poor except complain about the rich.

Some people get money from working VERY hard, other inherit it. Life is a lottery and that is just how it is.

Also, giving money to poorer countries or even aid such as food cripples their economies further. This makes their situation further especially if given in the event of a surplus from something such as setaside. (this is VERY basic economics)

cba writing a full long paragraph so Im ending this post here.

p.s. some people like not having a lot of money or don't see money as important. A hardworking family as such would be instuled by the thought of somoene giving money in "sympathy for their difficult situation".

that could be. but i still dont see fairness in a mother with 5 kids unable to feed em and a man who got enough food to feed her, her children, and a whole town.. to put it a bit on the edge. I do understand what you mean though, but i still feel like tha world is unfair

wynney, the point here is not 'would it work'
its 'is it fare'

You heartless b*sterd. XD Jokes <3 xD

Leaving things as they are would be wiser than changing things, theres always some bi-products from experiments.

You are aware of what Utopianism is, right?


The current systems of society that are in this world are far from perfect. But there are worse ways things could be done.

what you believe is fair or not changes over time. Morals are different in each and every person.

Is it fair for women to have the vote. 100 years ago the answer would be no, even from some women...

The concept of fairness is inambigous. If you take an extreme example of 5 women with kids compared to a bloke with loads of money it's an obvious conclusion.

But consider the fact that woman sleeps around. Has no support from family due to a drug problem. Gave up education. Compared to the bloke who went through uni, trained in a firm for 10 years before getting a job.

These things are considered on a face to face basis which is impossible. Some people would say yeh everyone is equal, therefore it would be fair for the bloke to share his money. Others would say, FUUUU immigrants fault anyway.

You are picking on very extreme examples and then commenting on how it's not fair. Such as argument in my opinion is so hugely hypocritical it's unreal.

People complain all the time about internet being taken away, or their computers break. Then another thread talk about fairness?! Lots of people dont ever have access to these. So different principles apply to different situations?

It's ideal for everything to be "fair" but you could never ever ever ever truly say what is fair and what is not fair. There are problems closer to home that should be dealt with before other things are considered - although I'm not really sure what you're talking about as your comments on unfairness to people are very unspecific.

what if that woman didnt sleep around for fun? what if she was beaten and raped, would that be fair to call her a whore? cause she wasnt strong enough to escape the rapes.. just to put it in another situation.

maybe she had an education, but didnt get a job cause she's a woman. you never know any of the sides. thats what makes life unfair no matter what story both of em have

And yes, though I've had quite an unfair life, and a very hard one, I see your point. But tbh I dont feel like saying in public what my past have been like, but it's been far away from fair, and it makes you think. And pain is something that can be defined by yourself for yourself imo. Some people thing other things hurts and some people thinks other things hurt. But even though I had a hard life, doesnt mean I still have a bader life than someone else. to someone I might live in luxary indeed. But as I see it, you only can define pain for yourself. We don't chose how we're born, where we're born, by whom we're born from.

This is an unending arument which will never end.

Wynney is right.

Life isn't fair and this is a GOOD thing.

It's right that a highly trained, intelligent top end scientist or engineer or whatever should have more money than an untrained slob who barely even tries. Otherwise we wouldn't have them.

As for people in "unfortunate" positions, maybe that mother of 5 you gave shouldn't have had 5 kids in the first place. Can't support them, don't have them, not like it's particularly difficult (not like condoms or abstinence are expensive or hard). As for raped - abortion, morning after are readily available. Not getting a job because she's a woman? That's illegal and is being acted against. Besides, that's an extreme case that seems to vary from the original point.

And for the third world countries, maybe we should help them, but doting on them isn't the way to do it. Give a man a fish and all that...

(This is an example, not trying to be too egotistical) I am doing a physics degree. It is a difficult degree. There are 3 reasons I am doing it;
I can do physics.
I like physics.
Physics degrees get you good jobs.
Now, when I get my good job, why should I give the money I have EARNED to other people? Why can't they go and earn it themselves?
Actually, that seems rather fair to me.

So yeah, if people don't see something as fair, perhaps rather than complaining, they should do something about it (that doesn't include bugging other people to dote on them). As for people who can't do something (third world), they need help, not money.

inb4 "Your opinion doesn't count because you're not the one being unfair to" (heard that faaaar too many times).

and what about those people who cannot earn their money? but actually try their best? What about those who cant work because of illness, or other things. I am not saying that people who earn their money should give it away to those who dont bother earning..thats a completly different thing. but there are people the government gives a shit about. someone maybe nto be educated enough to get a job, because ther's a reason they had to quit school.

The world never was or will never be a fair place to be.

i know that whenever someone replyes to this subject there will always be another side to it.
but i agree ppl too lazy to bother can be blamed by themsellves, but trust me there are those who tries but cant make a living. and it's those people i feel sorry for.

you don't have to be clasically educated in order to get a good job.

At the end of the day, people who put in the effort get what they deserve at the end of it. It doesn't work out that way for everyone, but it's just not possible it will.

For example, a friend of mine gave up school at the age of 16. He got a crappy job at a supermarket. He's now 19 and an assistant manager. The only reason he's not manager is that he's too young. So around 22 ish he will be on a very very nice salary as a manager.

Education wasn't for him, but did he stay in some dead end job? No. He made something of his life and has worked hard. He deserves the good job he now has.

Equally, you don't have to be educated to come up with a concept, develop an idea and pitch it to people. There is always a chance that this idea will be picked up become huge. Equally someone rich may invest all of his money and it will never take off. Leaving him in a much worse position.

Risk taking is what life is all about, without risking something, i.e. developing the ipod could have been a huge flop but turned out to be a huge success. For this hard work, the company deserves the money it has. Should that company help a struggling company simply because the other company didnt take that risk?

I can't think of any situation where someone who has worked hard ends up in a terrible position. The people in bad situations are people who accept this to be the case.

For example, my Grandma immigrated to the UK from Poland. She got a crappy job in a factory. She worked really hard, my Mum went to uni, worked really hard. I am at university, and I got there by working. If I didn't work then I'd be out of university and I would deserve it. Everyone has started at some point (every family) from what other people better off could call a horrific situation. But it's what we make of this that affects our position in life.

A person not clever can still fight and work hard and progress. Some people who are clever will never fulfill their potential due to being unwilling to work hard.

morals differ, but your logic on what is fair is flawed.
Fair is being given the same opportunity. what you do with it is irrelevant, you could very well blow you chance and deserve what you get, but not everyone even gets a chance.

e.g.
being turned down from a school because you cant afford it despite your grades is unfair.
going hungry because of you parents failures is unfair. the very concept of royalty is immensely unfair and insulting.

don't bother arguing economics or 'thats life' they are irrelevant in this context.
i agree with you skillers, slobs who cant be arsed don't deserver your money. but you had the chance.
e.g.
you can do physics
you like physics
you cannot for the life of you afford to go to uni.

i don't care if people blow there chance, i just think everyone should get one.

I disagree.But I cannot give you the reason why. So therefore you may live in your vision on the matter and I will live on in mine. The reason I will not say why i disagree is because that will become quite personal. Maybe if you knew, you could understand me. But i dont expect anyone to.

Simply, some people are in a bad situation. not because they chose to.. but because ppl put you there. And that I cannot help.

Stephen Hawking

As for uni, the govement gives plenty of money out to go through uni, and if you really really can't afford it, there's always the possibility of getting a job and doing it later.

Life is a bit like poker, winning an losing depends on how you play the hand you get, not just what you get.

I'll just post what i wrote in the chat with mcwill.

I'm going to stop arguing about this matter. cause i cannot debate of the poitns i want without telling everyone about my personal life, so i decided not to. but there are a few in this clan who knows very well what matters im talking about, and I would not argu about such matters without a reason.

edit: I do understand your points though, but as said, there are always two sides to a case. remember that

people are offered scholarships if they can't afford the fees but have worked hard and achieved good grades.

It's not equal opportunities that result in what you make of life. It's how much effort you put into your life.

To me your argument is a chip on the shoulder thing. I have gone to private school and state (community) school and the standard of teaching is EXACTLY the same. The facilities for sport are better in a private school but I think you're clutching at straws if you believe this is what effects the chances people have in life.

I went to a good school, it made me work harder. Not because it's a private school. But I knew the money my parents put into it and I wanted to do well so as not to let them down. This is EFFORT not OPPORTUNITY. I have seen people in my private school not bother to work. This is their own work ethic. I have seen people in the community school work very hard and go to university, or get good jobs.

I know someone at uni who had a tumour at the age of 16. This didn't affect her, whilst being morally horriffic, especially at such a young age.

I have seen people who have had their neck broken playing rugby but eventually still become a rugby player. Equally, there are those who still work hard and compete in paralympic games, etc. If you want something, you can work for it and achieve it.

What has happened to people in life cannot be used as any argument. There are always those who don't wallow in self pity and actually work for what they want. Everyone has had bad things to them. Everyone. It affects some people more than others but in the long scheme of things it's completely irrelevant in my opinion. Having a tumour didn't affect my friend go to uni, she put in work and she deserves everything she has as a result.