I feel like having a good debate, and this subject is a particularly good one as I know something will come of it.

By debate, I do not mean argument. I do not want petty insults, unsubstantiated claims, and flaming.

I do not care what the situation in reality is, I want people to merely debate about it, trying to put forward their point of view, and then different points being discussed.

Thus far I have DHR's main points I believe (if these are wrong I'll amend the post). These points are all (assuming he is correct) to be taken as being from HIS perspective:

* The Spy is broken because he has the ability to become invisible and instantly kill which makes him too powerful, however removing these or him breaks the game. In addition, he is also easy to play (as DHR was able to do well when he tried to play Spy). Hence the Spy is broken.


The following are MY points:

* The Spy is not broken, all the classes fit together in their own ways, like a jigsaw puzzle. The Spy is useful for taking out specific enemy team members who are proving too tough for conventional means, as well as sowing confusion amongst the ranks of the enemy.

*Without the Spy, teams can only hurl themselves at each other head-on. The Spy adds an extra element, and thus almost an extra level to the game.

*In my opinion the Spy is not easy to play. Aside from being in the group of classes with the least health of 125 hp (along with the Scout, Sniper and Engineer), he is also often on his own when behind enemy lines meaning that he has virtually no backup from his own team to rely on. Discovery often means near instant death. Paranoid players can easily result in the Spy being revealed, as well as general bad luck.

*In addition, the Spy has very little head on power. The revolver is pretty accurate, but your aim has to at least be vaguely good in order to hit anything with it. On top of this, its fire rate is not particularly high, it is more of a retreating weapon to try and ward off players, it's not good for really taking out other players unless you're lucky. Aside from backstabs, the knife is the weakest melee weapon in the game, and also apparently does not crit.

*From what I have noticed, facestabs and failstabs occur at pretty much equal rates (which makes sense). Whilst it means the number of kills that a spy makes should 'technically' even out, both should not happen, but alas, lag cannot be fixed.


Those are all the points I have to make for now. Debate and discuss!

Spy is not broken. Infuriating, yes. Broken, no.

BTW, the knife can't crit because the backstab IS it's crit. Same as the sniper rifle.

Can you substantiate that?



Indeed, but I did not think I had to explain it to that level of detail.

The word apparently made it look like you didn't know.

And I cba to substantiate, it's simply not broken. Well, it does need a bit of fixing, same as pyro.