So, the 360 has had them for ages, but with the recent release of the Orange Box, Steam users get them too, for Episode 2, Portal and TF2.

Personally, I actually think they're really good, I can see why 360 users like them so much. They add playtime, track what you're doing and add neat challenges (the gnome one on Episode 2 for example). They actually increase the playtime of the game by making you want to play it again to get the achievements. I'm really hoping Valve introduce achievements into more of their games with the Source 07 updates. Achievements for HL2 and Ep1 already exist on the 360 version, so I hope we get those, but I would also like to see achievements in games such as CSS.

What does everyone else think of achievements?

It is a good way to extend the general game play. On games like HL2 you run out of things to do when its completed and all you get out of it is the satifaction that you beat the game.

Acheivements are a cool way to add some replay value to the game. Just going through all the same stuff in a harder mode or something often gets boring before you even manage to get anywhere with it.

Actually having objectives to complete would give alot more worth to it. It has the same problems in alot of games like Halo for example. Its an insanely over-rated game which has 0 replay value and the harder modes don't even add much to it other than the enemies are like 10 times harder to kill.

So once you complete it, it basically leaves you with NOTHING. Alot of games could do alot better with adding things like valve just have. The only game that even came close to what their doing now is Goldeneye on the N64. With each harder mode you had millions more to do. New objectives more stuff kill and more needed areas to go to. I think that is the closest thing any shooting game has ever come to acheivements and that game is like 10 years old now?

Story modes in games need all the help they can get really. once complete alot of people get instantly bored. Adding extra things to complete or opening new areas when things are done would alot to the games in general.

Well that's what I'm saying, they did add it to the orange box, and it adds a fair bit more to it. True, running over 20 enemies isn't hard, but it's quite fun to play for a few more minutes just to do that. Everything adds a little bit more to the game.

They don't actually add anything to the main game, but they give you personal challenges. A good example would be the gnome achievement on Ep2. To do this achievement you need to get a garden gnome from the beginning of the game (it's before you really get anywhere at all) and carry it with you all the way to the end 1/3rd of the game to put it in a rocket. That got me to replay the game (not something I normally do) just to get it, and it was quite fun doing it.

Achievements in TF2 are also good, as they get you to try out every map and character, which helps get you into the game more.

I'm personally hoping we will see the HL2 and Ep1 achievements, along with some for CSS.

What I think would be even better is if later on (this is easier with steam), more achievements get added to bring people back to game, maybe by what ones the community would like (for example I would like on TF2 for them to add a Team Player award for those with 1000 assist kills).

Also, where is that gnome?

Yeah I'd agree ten years. Time Splitters 2 also had a similar system for replay value. The herder modes had less time and more objectives. And more level usually. So instead of beating the boss at the end to get the Time Crystal, you had to beat the boss, AND then find the Time Cystal + kill a load of stuff defending it!

I completely agree that games should have achievements, RCT you had to achieve to finish a level, and you got a sandbox at the end. I agree that Halo (the first atleast) has no replay value... Apart from the final level (with the 'Hogs down the trench) I wouldnt play the 1P again. However, if there was a bonus for doing it without killing stuff or whatever i might try it. It's another reason to get a 360, every game comes with achievements and random stuff you have to do.

Hmm, more achievements added later would be a good idea, except that the game doesn't track the total stats, only the max stats and anything achievement related, AFAIK. This means that the 1000 assist kills would have to be done from the start, which would annoy a few people. Adding some new per round achievements, like a backstabbing one, would be good.



The thing about adding more enemies and objectives for replay is a good one. Some people were saying that they were looking forward to having soldiers in the final battle in Ep2, but they weren't there in the end game because they were considered too hard. Quite a lot of people said that hard mode should have added them, for a real challenge.

Another thing to improve replay value in some games would be having the ability to jump to major battles in a game and customise them. For example, I would like to replay the antlion defence and end battles of Ep2, but with different settings, such as more enemies and more friends, etc.

Changing battles could be done in a gmod kinda mod to the actual games. I know on gmod you can setup huge battles and stuff to do and build random stuff for protection and make gun emplacements ect.

I think the main problems with adding acheivements to alot of older games is generally disc space ect. Star Ocean on the PS2 (rpg type game) had alot of acheivement type stuff ect and is basically the only game I PS2 I know of to actually use up 2 discs.. I would assume on a PS2 their Dvds? though I am not sure either way just adding something like that with harder modes ect in the game aswell creates alot of added usage to stuff. Like on the memory card as well it used up basically 1/8th of a standard one just to save your acheivements too..

Of course now with xboxs ect having actualy HDDs with alot of save space on them for all the games it has become alot easier to save data like that.

I think thats basically why no games on consoles have introduced stuff like that until recently. Was a slight problem for shooting games because once you'd completed them you had nothing left to do.. For RPG based games however it was different because you usually have different characters to use or other things to do you might have missed out on. Their the only games I have found to have any real replay value to them..

Looking at my SteamID page, I would guess that it stores it all, it stores the highest, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be storing every frag.

Azrael;

What I meant about the battle thing was having it so you start a battle, move around a few sliders to change number of people etc and then get put into the game. It would probably be possible in a full mod, but it would have been nice as a feature in the full game.

The achievements themselves don't actually take up that much space to tell it what you need to do, I think. The achievements on Steam are actually stored online, aswell, except the progress to reaching x things, which I believe is local until you complete it (some of them are save dependant aswell). I believe it's similar on the 360.

I think they weren't introduced earlier because there was no way to compare. They're a bit of fun you can compare with your friends, and that is made possible by the internet, which you couldn't really do until the 360 or a service like Steam.

Si;

It seems to store total points and max of everything else, but that's it from what I can tell.

I was more on about consoles really. On a PC they have had easily enough space for quite a few years. But until recently with the 360 and PS3 they could have never put it into practise on a console. Because none of them had enough memory space. On the PS2 you would almost need a seperate memory card for each game. So to play games like that it would cost you around £60 a time..

Yeah, but with the 360 all your achievements are stored online, like with Steam. This is the turning point, as it allows quick comparison with your friends and promotes friendly competition and the such. Having the achievements stored locally could be boring to some, as there's no easy way to compare and see how you're doing in regards to everyone else.

Indeed. But online play has never really been done either. But then again on half life there isn't much to show from it anyway. Getting acheivements in online games makes alot more sense than offline ones in what your saying.

If their stored on a website like BF was then thats ok but not many people are gonna look or either care much anyway.

Well I know quite a lot of people with 360s compete for "gamerscore" which are points you get for doing stuff in games, single or multiplayer, like the achievements on Episode 2. The harder the achievement, the more points you get. The single player achievements are there to add extra life to a game by making you do stuff again, but differently.

The online thing has been done countless times.. Everything I said was basically in story mode type games..

You seem to think I'm on about online games, I'm not, I'm on about singleplayer games with achievements that are stored online, like the achievements with episode 2 and portal.

Thats not it at all. I knew exactly what you were on about and if you were to carefully read what I said again maybe you would understand..

There were two completely different sentences in that last post..

Well you started on about storage space, then I mentioned it was stored online, and that's why we see lots now and not before, then you started talking as if I meant online games... "Getting acheivements in online games makes alot more sense than offline ones in what your saying." which I wasn't...

Anyway, I finally got the Hardcore achievement on TF2! I think I'll play some more Portal or Ep2 tomorrow.

All I meant was... Online game acheivements seem mroe sensible.. Who is gonna care much about what you do offline. :/

And with the storage shit I was on about older games that tried it and failed because it was ust not possible. NOTE I WAS ON ABOUT THE PS2.

Well with the gnome thing you can say "look I did this in Episode 2" or just play it through and compete with your friends for certain achievements.

Yeah but that one seems kinda sad. If you told me you did that and I didn't know the game I'd be like: "Why the <LOOK MA, I AM SWEARING> did you do that? what a waste of your life"

See not particularry something to show off. But with online games ect like getting 1000 kills it seems more impressive..

Yeah, but it's competition with people who do know. After all, who's going to care that you got 1000 kills in a game they don't play? For all they know it could be a deathmatch with like 20 kills per minute, which makes 1000 not that impressive.

With online games ALOT of people you would know would hear about it because well if their your friend your gonna tell them about it... And they might even play it. If they don't like it they won't care less...

But in general I mean for offline games: It adds alot more for you to do in the game so you can play it through a couple of times to get things done.

But for online: It is a bit more of a competition between your friends and stuff becuse youe acheiving them against othe people. Not insanely retarded AI. Unless you cheat and go against bots :/

True, you can be more competitive with online statistics, however offline game's achievements can be good to show off. The neighbourhood watch one in episode is extremely hard to get, even on easy, and anyone who's played it will appreciate that.