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 Post Post subject: Re: Techious Server Donation
 
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Right... from what I can tell all of this conversation stems from three main points:
1. Multiplay issues
2. Minecraft server lags
3. We want to run other things.

I shall answer these things one at a time.
1. The only two issues we really have with multiplay is that a) updates take forever, b) when the server goes down, noone gets it back up. In response to a), it happens, it happens to anything other than a dedi, we'll probabily have to live with that. b) Uuh... tell us? I'm pretty sure if it goes down you can get a hold of one of the THREE people who currently have access (met, kyhas and myself). I'm not sure how clanforge works with permission, so adding extra people might not really be a viable option. Lag isn't an issue (rate 50000 files 99% of "lag issues")

2. The server sucks, I know. But its running on a flipping VM (essentially)... I don't think its designed to play minecraft less laggily. My potential solution below.

3. This is where I say my solution. To put it bluntly, we don't need a dedi. Some people in this thread are correct that we don't need one because would we really make the most of it or would it just drain our pockets for nothing. My alterative suggestion is those who wish to donate and help our servers, put some money in a common pot. That pot pays for our servers. If we want a different game, we see how much money we have and if we have sufficient funds then we get a server for some time for it. We may not be able to switch as quickly as having a dedi, but... (not really tested, but clanforge does allow us to change mets tf2 server to a css or hl2mp server as and when we want so we already have some flexibility). The first possible use of this pot is to pay for a less laggy Minecraft Server. It will probably be around 12 pound a month, so if a pot allows its purchase, then we can go ahead and get that and solve the main reason this thread has begun.


Please tell me what you think to this idea :)

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Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:30 pm 
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I think the option for buying the odd server as needed (like Minecraft) sounds much more financially viable and worth considering, especially since the Minecraft server has been quite popular of late.

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Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:39 pm 
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why exactly do we need a dedi and how would we use it? i'll do my best to support this when i can if its explained to me how we do this cost effectively.
But...
we didn't have enough active members/donators to support the last one and we have even less now.
i very rarely see more than 2 people on gmod, i never see people on l4d,css, HL2DM, hidden etc. tf2 is quite popular but the server we have seems to manage it alright (its cheap, i never lag). cant speak for minecraft as i don't own it but an extra ~£50 per month for one game seems a little excessive, or are they some other games everyone is playing that i'm unaware of? Most people seem to be on SC2/LoL these days, neither of which require a dedi.

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Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:38 pm 
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McWill. We get dedi, we get tf2 party mod.

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Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:01 pm 
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McWill wrote:
we didn't have enough active members/donators to support the last one and we have even less now.
i very rarely see more than 2 people on gmod, i never see people on l4d,css, HL2DM, hidden etc. tf2 is quite popular but the server we have seems to manage it alright (its cheap, i never lag).

I believe there are more People offering to pay up than before, even non-Techious Members have offered Money. In my Opinion there are more Members than before, besides previously barely anyone was earning Money, now there are quite a Lot having a Job.

Reason why People are not playing HL2DM, HL2 Mods, G-Mod, etc is because we do not have an own Server. The TF2 Server is alright, but Multiplay is sometimes an Issue and also excessive Lag (even with fix'd Rates).

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:34 am 
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I've not heard anything about lag on the TF2 server for a very long time. Only issue is it sometimes being down and not restarting.

As for people donating, you're going to have to be more specific than 'more members than before' as quite a few people did used to donate.

And people would play those things (HL2: DM, etc) elsewhere if they wanted to. There doesn't seem to be any current demand for them.

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:11 am 
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schlurbi wrote:
I believe there are more People offering to pay up than before, even non-Techious Members have offered Money. In my Opinion there are more Members than before, besides previously barely anyone was earning Money, now there are quite a Lot having a Job.

Pay regularly? I somehow doubt it since before we barely had anyone who could/would pay regularly and it was a struggle on Si/Skiller's ends to get enough money to keep the server going.
And again with the activity that I, Si, John and Will have stressed. It doesn't matter if we can pay for it. If we don't use it like we should, we shouldn't be wasting money on it in my opinion. Funnily enough because more people have jobs means they perhaps will have less time during the day to be active on games.

schlurbi wrote:
Reason why People are not playing HL2DM, HL2 Mods, G-Mod, etc is because we do not have an own Server.

HL2M, mods, G-mod can probably be hosted by Si and be perfectly acceptable. We don't need a dedicated server to play them- we don't have one for CSS and we've been playing that recently.
And like most games, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of empty dedicated servers we can hop on when we need to. As far as I'm concerned, we don't play games like L4D etc because nobody simply wants to. I've tried getting a versus together several times and the response (if I actually GET a response from people) is no every time which again is a problem of activity that won't be solved by getting a dedicated server.

schlurbi wrote:
The TF2 Server is alright, but Multiplay is sometimes an Issue and also excessive Lag (even with fix'd Rates).

There's no lag on the server, it's all on their end. I've never experienced lag on the server outside of my own ping being high because of my habit of downloading pornographic materials or uploading musical recreations of classical video game themes. Oh and maybe when the replay system was originally enabled when it was as optimised as the game itself is. Other than that, no issues. It's occasionally down but you just need to speak to the 3 leaders to start it up (a power I personally think should be given to all staff members and even Lamsey).

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:51 am 
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If you go to Work, you work about 8 Hours a Day, five Times a Day. Compared to doing University Stuff (when People spend the whole Week and almost every Minute they have on Practicing and Projects) it is nothing.

It doesn't matter if there are empty, dedicated Servers hosted by other People. Everytime they suggested one of these Games, they said they only want to do that on an own Server.

About Lag on the TF2 Server: Fine, maybe you are not lagging. Countless other People are, including myself. I am not talking about random People joining and complaining. I'm talking about regular Players, and they surely know how to set Rates. It lagged with and without Replay enabled. Also I remember you complaining about Lag as well.

The only negative Point of having an own dedicated Server is the Cost. With a couple of People even the Set-Up Cost would be no Problem.

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:06 pm 
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schlurbi wrote:
If you go to Work, you work about 8 Hours a Day, five Times a Day. Compared to doing University Stuff (when People spend the whole Week and almost every Minute they have on Practicing and Projects) it is nothing.

Depends on the job and the degree. You can't fairly compare the two.


schlurbi wrote:
It doesn't matter if there are empty, dedicated Servers hosted by other People. Everytime they suggested one of these Games, they said they only want to do that on an own Server.

These people need to open their mind to put it nicely. A server is a server regardless of if we control it or not. The only thing you might not be able to control is specific map changes or kicking randomers (or community members who join in, L4D2 ring bells?) but are you willing to regularly pay money just for things you don't really need?


schlurbi wrote:
About Lag on the TF2 Server: Fine, maybe you are not lagging. Countless other People are, including myself. I am not talking about random People joining and complaining. I'm talking about regular Players, and they surely know how to set Rates. It lagged with and without Replay enabled. Also I remember you complaining about Lag as well.

I don't complain about lag, I complain about the LAG COMPENSATION, there's a huge difference. If you're lagging, it's a problem on your end, the server is mostly fine. Yes it has hiccups, but it's mostly people having something wrong with their PCs. I admit that TF2 is a clusterf*** of unoptimised mess that can cause people to run the game poorly and unstably but it's still NOTHING to do with the server.


schlurbi wrote:
The only negative Point of having an own dedicated Server is the Cost. With a couple of People even the Set-Up Cost would be no Problem.

Understand it's not the INITIAL PAYMENT that's the problem, it's the REGULAR MONTHLY COSTS afterward that are the problem. Yay, we can set it up, wicked! Oh damn we now have to pay monthly. That's when people disappear and payments stop. Skillers and Si have already spoken on this.

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:19 pm 
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schlurbi wrote:
I believe there are more People offering to pay up than before, even non-Techious Members have offered Money.

awesome, have them post here please stating how much they would be willing to donate frequently.

schlurbi wrote:
In my Opinion there are more Members than before, besides previously barely anyone was earning Money, now there are quite a Lot having a Job.


this is probably true (they have jobs), though we are less active atleast on the forum. they can confirm it when they post here so we can be confident there is enough people who can pay frequently.

schlurbi wrote:
Reason why People are not playing HL2DM, HL2 Mods, G-Mod, etc is because we do not have an own Server. The TF2 Server is alright, but Multiplay is sometimes an Issue and also excessive Lag (even with fix'd Rates).


i'm going to have to disagree here, i've been in tchs for a few years now and in all that time we've collectively played HL2DM about 6 times, G-mod could be fun once in a while but again it was a 2-3 times a month thing when we had the dedi if i recall correctly. i have a number of HL2 mods we've played once (e.g. stargate) etc.

not sure about server lag, i'm pretty uninformed on how they work exactly but if the majority of people never lag on the server and these people also have correct rates and a good configuration, doesn't that imply the fault is at the users end?

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:35 pm 
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This seems to have turned into more of a Hawke Vs Schlurbi kinda thing, and it's about who wins not about the discussion, just my pov.

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Harry wrote:
This seems to have turned into more of a Hawke Vs Schlurbi kinda thing, and it's about who wins not about the discussion, just my pov.

This is why I am not going to bother replying to him. Done, twice. Which is enough. It is repeating, annoying and silly. I don't want this ending in a Forum Drama, just because someone thinks it is important to counter everything someone else says.

I am also not going to bother and keep asking the People that do not visit the Forums. I will ask some when we're playing Team Fortress. It is just not my Duty, I only wanted to suggest getting a new/better Server for several Games.

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Right...

Firstly, I havent seen any good reason for getting a dedi, if you can give me specifics like "we havent been able to play X which everyone wants" instead of "we could do this" then that would be good.
Secondly, can I have replies for people who are interested in the "donate money into a pot for renting servers as and when we want them" idea, so we can set this up if we want it. (i.e. im guessing all this due to wanting a less laggy minecraft experience)
Thirdly, stop arguing, even if you think you havent been

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:07 pm 
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schlurbi wrote:
I am also not going to bother and keep asking the People that do not visit the Forums.

It is just not my Duty, I only wanted to suggest getting a new/better Server for several Games.


Thats fine, thanks for the suggestion. But putting the question of if we actually need a dedi asside for a moment.. your the one claiming to have a number of donors lined up, nobody else knows who they are. It is only logical for you to tell us who they are/ask them to post here if you ever want anything to come of this.

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Sounds to me like we need a spreadsheet!


also starcraft dosent need server therefore techious does not need servers (True story)

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Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:32 am 
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Nannal wrote:
Sounds to me like we need a spreadsheet!


also starcraft dosent need server therefore techious does not need servers (True story)

Word.

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Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Since you wanted a spreadsheet, I made one.
Anybody with the link should be able to put their name in and how much they'd like to donate per month, and for which game.

Shit just got linkified.
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Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:18 am 
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I'm happy to chip in some money towards servers, as the BM guys (myself, Nikki, samzala, Siggs, et al) get a lot of usage out of the TCHS TF2 server. Seems a bit unfair to me that Met and Si have to shoulder the burden.

My suggestion would be to have a general TCHS pot to which people can contribute. Server money can then be drawn from the pot according to how much is regularly going into it. If the amount of money in the pot ends up exceeding the amount required for servers, then use that cash on things like the LAN or to subsidise roadtrips etc. If there is not enough money, then cut back on the least used servers.

My 2p on the dedi thing: if we end up with enough money to sustain it, then it would be cool to have the ability to do more than we are currently able to. However, I think we should only do that if there is enough money coming in so that folks like Si are not placed at risk of having to shoulder a big burden if people drop out. I don't personally have any issues with the current setup.

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Enough money AND enough demand.

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Watch this video on Youtube.

Meanwhile at Techious...

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:59 pm 
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Lord Metritutus wrote:
Enough money AND enough demand.


Care to explain?

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Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:53 am 
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Harry wrote:
Lord Metritutus wrote:
Enough money AND enough demand.


Care to explain?


As in a single dedicated server being needed rather than a few individual servers. There's no point spending the money just because it's there. If a proper dedicated server is purchased and isn't fully utilised, it will have been a complete waste of funds.

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Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:32 pm 
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Harry wrote:
Since you wanted a spreadsheet, I made one.
Anybody with the link should be able to put their name in and how much they'd like to donate per month, and for which game.

Shit just got linkified.
Image


this link seems to indicate people want to chip in for:

a tf2 server (we already have)

and a minecraft server.

So to me it would seem reasonable simply to find people who want to get a minecraft server and chip in for it together (if the one is currently too laggy to be bearable).

this spreadsheet doesn't seem to indicate that a dediserver is needed.

By all means if you get enough funds / month to support it and people on board that is OK. But I can't help but feel they would be wasting their money (minecraft + tf2 seperate servers = >£60)

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Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:23 pm 
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 Post Post subject: Re: Techious Server Donation
 
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Wynney wrote:
This spreadsheet doesn't seem to indicate that a dediserver is needed.


I was talking to Si about this erliar, and basically what I said was have a TF2 (+Mumble), a minecraft and an interchangable one and that was also his thinking.

A dedi would be nice, but the extra looseness it gives isn't worth x2 the price imo.

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Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:34 am 
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 Post Post subject: Re: Techious Server Donation
 
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A new minecraft server is probably required (depending on how badly lag affects minecraft- I don't play it so I don't know) so that can be top priority for spending the monies in the kitty jar. As for an interchangable one, I still don't think Techious is at all active beyond TF2 and Minecraft (we do have regular SC2, but we don't need a server for that, more people need to get SC2 though) enough to warrant getting even an interchangable. We play CSS sometimes, but Si hosting that proved that it can be just fine. Any other game I can think of that we can possibly play can be done with Si hosting just fine (such as HL2DM) or make use of existing servers (L4D/2).
And if Si can't host: :blamesi:

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Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:49 am 
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